I used to be a fanatic anti-Microsoft (or anti-M$ to some) spokesperson. There was a time in college when I used to hate everything Microsoft. Soon after I tasted Linux for the first time during (yes during) my 12th standard boards -- and managed to get X working on my SiS VGA card -- I uninstalled Windows from my machine. And have taken pride in the fact that since then Windows ke liye mere computer ke darwaaze hamesha hamesha ki liye band ho gaye hain!
But later, during my job, I realised that there are places that still require Windows. Some places where Windows actually does a better job that Linux (operatibility with LCD projectors, one; presentation software, two). Therefore I found myself shifting to Microsoft Powerpoint on a Windows machine for making a client presentation whenever I needed to.
However, I still held the strong opinion that Windows users are on average "dumber" than Linux users. And I don't mean dumber in the IQ kind of sense. I mean "dumber" because they don't know what's happening under the hood. It's just like you and I, or the average person off the street, would be dumber about cars than an average car mechanic.
And my opinion was reinforced last week. Microsoft is bad for computer education.
I had recently gone to a college to recruit freshers for the tech team at Cleartrip. (It wasn't any of the IITs or RECs.) We were interviewing final year BE students (IT/CS/EE streams). A few were with a work ex. of one year or so.
I was stunned, and I mean absolutely STUNNED, when people who claimed to have worked on their college website did not know what a URL meant when I asked them for it! When people who had claimed to work on e-shopping carts could not tell me exactly how sessions were maintained.
And these are not your typical B.Com. + GNIIT kind of students. These are people who would, in a matter of months, be passing out with a computer engineering degree. They would become part of the so called "talent pool" of India.
Out of the 15 people I interviewed (there were about 45 divided amongst three interview panels), not a single person was able to write a program that generated the Fibonacci series!
No one was able to tell me what IDE they use to write C/C++ programs. After a series of indirect questiononing (what are the steps you do before you start writing your program, etc) only some were able to tell me that they used something called "tc" (Turbo C). No one had heard of "bc" (Borland C). I didn't bother asking about BloodShed.
Apparently, their college lab had only Windows installed. For four years they had been fed on a staple diet of .Net, ASP, C#, VB, VB.net, and what M$ technology have you. Where you simply right clicked on an HTML form control and set its property to hidden instead of learning that was happening under the hood. Where you didn't care what cookies or URL rewriting was – the session object just worked.
No one had seen a Linux command prompt ever, despite of having done a theoretical course on Unix.
Average Joe users can get by without knowing the innards of a computer.
Computer engineers can't.
Had the students been exposed to the Linux command prompt, they would've been introduced to an IDE, after they would've gone through the pain of writing a C program in a powerful text editor (like emacs), and then compiling and linking it by hand.
Had they been writing CGI scripts in Perl or web programming in PHP, they would've known how HTML forms work; the difference between GETs and PUTs. Some of them might've been exposed to more than one broweser, and the bad world of browser inconsistencies out there, and how to get around them (and over a period of time, most websites would work!)
Microsoft has kicked in a vicious circle of dumbing down the users. I'm sure the students were so clueless partly because their teachers were. And guess what OS the teachers had used in their college days?
I'm not saying that Linux is absolutely bare bones and you get no level of abstraction on it. It has multiple desktop systems. It has good IDEs. It has pretty mature WYSIWYG office suites. It has the best browser :)
You can raise dumb users on Linux. But it would be goddamn hard to do it.
Linux induces a sense of play. A sense of adventure. It encourages you to look under the hood. Millions of lines of open source code are an invitation to the inquisitive minds of college students to come, play!
And I'm not saying that you can't raise smart computer engineers Windows. But it would be goddamn hard to do it.
The evidence proves it.
(PS: We're still looking for freshers, or people with under one year experience to join our tech team. Drop me your resume nanda at cleartrip dot com in case you're interested, or know someone who is. )
Good read.,
ReplyDeleteThanks
You are on track with your comments. My company connects the top infrastructure software engineers in the world to the best US software development organizations. The single biggest obstacle to making placements is a disconnect between what the client expects as a minimum skill base and what the candidate demonstrates. This is with people who have 10 years experience in commercial software development. The solution we have come up with is comprehensive qualification processes as well as preparation for the interview if the candidate passes the first phase.
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cool stuff man!!!
ReplyDeleteI can't believe you are complaining about people with a lack of experience, then say:
ReplyDelete"We're still looking for freshers, or people with under one year experience to join our tech team"
Who would have thought people with almost no experience... have almost no experience?
Is it any surprise at ALL that people who started college after Borland faded from the scene haven't heard of it? You can't expect newbies to have old-timer knowledge.
@Anonymous (comment #4):
ReplyDeleteI'm referring to basic knowledge about what's happening under the covers. Difference between GET and POST, difference between http and https, basic recursive functions, basic SQL & DB knowhow, etc.
Is that too much to expect from a computer science engineer who has gone through three years of education targetted specifically towards computer science & engineering (first year is basic sciences)? Add to that a three month or six month internship as well.
w.r.t. to Borland v/s TC - have you ever been to a non-elite engineering campus? People are still using TC on DOS there. Seriously.
The main difference is that with Microsoft, you are merely a "consumer". The producer/consumer (parent/child) mindset is not just the fault of Microsoft but is widespread across the corporate world and society in general.
ReplyDeleteFree Software is the only hope of professionalising our industry. But Linux is not the best thing since sliced bread. It's OK.
Friendly tip: don't use "M$", it makes you look immature.
ha ha , welcome to Indie land my friend . The reality is most of the people in colleges dont even do their projects byu them selves , so obviosuly your questions went unanswered . I agree linux is good , but the reason why i dont totally use it all the time is cause i cant just do XNA / directX game programming on it . Basic programming concepts are same on any platform , its how much and to what extent you want to exploit them makes linux / windows a better option
ReplyDeleteI too dislike the "dumbness" of Microsoft users. I first started using Linux in the 8th grade and in fact I couldn't setup internet on Windows for some odd reason. I used the net for the first time on BeOS, then Linux and finally on Windows. However I still use Windows because too many applications do not have a 'good quality' equivalent on Linux. For ex certain games and Adobe software.
ReplyDeleteI am curious to know which college you visited. I too study in a engineering college in Goa. And I find this post a bit harsh. It's true that we are spoon fed with the .NET and what not but it's not our fault. And I probably could have answered most of those questions(web dev related) in the 12th grade. But I won't be showing up for the interviews because I have 2 backs. What I have noticed (and this is my opinion only) is that you either learn (and suffer in terms of academic performance) or you slog and get the marks but lack knowledge. Some of the brighter students do both(how i wish i was one of them).
Anyways, I just think this was a bit harsh on the students - it's not their fault. It's just the way the system is setup. It's a result oriented environment where marks mean everything.
P.S Wonderful blog you've got here, funny how I never found it before. I've added you in my links :). Also I wasn't trying to brag but I honestly was very interested in web designing/development :P.
Hey,
ReplyDeleteRegarding presentation software, just thought I'd point you in the direction of Beamer, which is a class for LaTeX.
It doesn't require a great deal of LaTeX knowledge to produce passable presentations, but can create really great ones with a bit of work.
Dan
Linux definitely encourages looking under the hood but I think your argument that Microsoft is to blame for the poor quality of the students is a bit of a stretch. The blame lies firmly with the teachers and the students. While I'm sure really good teachers at great universities would cover a lot of the details you want them to, my own experience at university was that the students that learned were the ones who took an interest and taught themselves.
ReplyDeleteFabulous post, although I must say you almost lost a reader after saying you prefer Microsoft Powerpoint for presentations.
ReplyDeleteYou should be careful though: people might start leaving code snippets on outputting the fibonacci sequence (see FizzBuzz).
great post, that really sums up a lot of things, but i would agree with Michael Holland above:
ReplyDelete"my own experience at university was that the students that learned were the ones who took an interest and taught themselves."
i too can concur with that (10 years I.T. experience) - the best people are the ones that are self motivated to learn the stuff themselves. OpenSolaris/Free BSD/Linux are all entirely free - there really is no excuse *not* to learn them yourself, if you want to be a computer engineer.
And don't forget the evil __VIEWSTATE. 20K extra bandwith just to save a session... When PHP can manage server side session, so can .Net
ReplyDeleteAnd it's no wonder that they don't know what an URL is. Most of the work is often done by Javascript that posts data relative to the session... this is of course generated by Visual Studio.
.Net isn't so bad, but the students should be banned from using Visual Studio the first year.
Don't be too quick to back on client-side viewstate. Yes it's extra bandwidth but it has the advantage of scalability, flexibility, and robustness. It also can be a lot less than 20k if you're correctly using data caching. If the server crashes, or your traffic has LOTS of concurrent users or you want to use a server farm then hidden form fields have their advantages.
ReplyDelete"Garden variety" session state mgmt is almost always inferior to a tuned custom implementation (ASP.NET certainly has its issues) but doing it all on the server side isn't always the best idea.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteIt was wonderful coming across your blog. You are absolutely spot on with your comments, specially on the recruitment scene. At times the colleges are themselves to blame for the dismal performance in the interviews.
What is needed is an Holistic approach to the development of the engineers and a cross-platform, multi-language exposure. These not only helps the individuals stand out in a crowd but the chances of them getting things done efficiently are also higher. They are likely to be more innovative and better read than the average engineering school pass out.
The best learning is thus what happens as a result of ones own initiative and practise, not just out of some curriculum book.
Some of my experiences with resumes and candidates can be found on www.blog.brainwavelive.com
I am from JNTU Engineering college in Kakinada, I did my MCA there.
ReplyDeleteWhen I just left college, our college got some hundreds of very expensive IBM pcs with LCD screens bundled with Windows XP(What a waste).
In college I was lucky enough to get access to redhat server through telnet ;-).
I was fortunate enough to have some good friends who are interested in technology & who love to explore stuff more than me.
Now a days I almost use ubuntu for my personal work from watching DVD's to listening to music, browsing internet and most impotently programming.
hey nandz,
ReplyDeleteYou do raise a couple of valid points here but i still would hate to blame microsoft for all those things. I guess u were a little too harsh.
For example:
"years they had been fed on a staple diet of .Net, ASP, C#, VB, VB.net, and what M$ technology have you. Where you simply right clicked on an HTML form control and set its property to hidden instead of learning that was happening under the hood."
Imagine if you had to set that property 10 times/hour. Just because MS gave a short cut does not mean you should follow it. There is always the code behind the designer that one could look into. Its rather the mindset of the students that they don't. Infact i'm probably having a hard time getting out of the mindset too.
"Had the students been exposed to the Linux command prompt, they would've been introduced to an IDE, after they would've gone through the pain of writing a C program in a powerful text editor (like emacs), and then compiling and linking it by hand."
That all can be done through windows too(emacs for windows, bcc32 )... its just that the philosphy behind the two operating systems differ. Unix was made by hackers and FOR hackers. Although that is all changing as its being paraded as a common man's desktop these days. Whereas windows has always been close to the philosophy that you SHOULDN'T HAVE TO care whats under the hood unless you really want to. Infact they've probably taken extra pains to hide those details.
Abstraction is not necessarily a bad thing...it only is so if you want it to be.
yeah nice blog.
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my college had same prob in my time but surprisingly i got a call from my hod & will be taking Linux workshop for my teachers soon.
m$ needs bashing for sure .
gud luck
My Bio-Data
ReplyDeleteName: Nandkishor Arvind Dhekane
Address: 541 Budhawar Peth,
Pune: 411002.
(: 24457135.
Mobile: 9960707990
Date of Birth Date: 23/3/1974.
Age: 33.
E-mail= nandudhekane@adpost.com/nandu.dhekane7@gmail.com
Edu. Qualification: B.A. Pass [2007]
Computer Courses: DTP, Visual Basic, C, C++, VC++, Oracle, Core Java, html, xml, Microsoft Access, Adobe Gif Animation.
Programming Language Developer,
COBOL, DBASE, Pascal, ASP.Net Visual Foxpro,Webpage Design & Development, Hardware & Networking, MS Office.
MSCIT Pass On November 2005.
Other Skill:e-book software Development, Graphic & Design Development
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Occupation: Homebase Software Development Jobs.
Area of Interests: Advertising & Multimedia Presentation Software Development
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Homebase Jobs: Data Entry. Nearly 1 year.
Software Projects: Mobile Radio, Calculater & Notepad.[My Own Software Projects].
Websites www.Info-CD.in.htm
Family Particulars: I have no father, brothers, sisters.I stay with my mother.
I did a three year BCA course at Bishop Heber College, Trichy in TN.
ReplyDeleteOur lab had 92 edition of Borland C++ IDE.
I wrote to the HOD if they could install ANSI C++ compliant IDE/Compiler. HOD directed me to lab Admin.
The answer was a simple no. "Not possible".
very gud
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Cant agree more. Learning basics and having a strong fundamental is minimum responsibility of a student (esp ComSi students). Unfortunately in India lots of private college's with the intention of money making and high placement, start pushing students to use IDE and learn C#.Net and Java kinda language, without even imparting the basic understanding of the underneath technology. Students like these are hollow shells. I remember in my college days (ISM Dhanbad) when we used to take hours finishing a C code. I still remember the happines among my friends when we drew the first graphical line using turbo c's "BGI.h". Linux was boon when we got to know it can compile everything from fortran, cobol, c or c++. Knowing IDE is not the crime, but not undergoing the pain of writing code from scratch is. Well Indian's are always running for job, who is caring for these tech (till they fail in interviews and have a sad face) :)
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I think this fits in optimistically here: Mark Shuttleworth closes Bug 1 of Ubuntu - "Microsoft has a majority market share" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
ReplyDeleteAnd wherever Microsoft has a majority market share, bullshit has to follow :-)
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Microsoft is not a education house. So why are you comparing these two topics.??
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